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Degwm: Gohebiaeth

Tithes: Correspondence

Sawl llythr oddi wrth John Johnes, y comisiynydd cynorthwyol, ac eraill i Gomisiynwyr y Degwm yn Llundain, ynglŷn â chyfrifiad gwerth y degwm.   Several letters from John Johnes, the Assistant Commissioner, and others to the Tithe Commissioners in London, concerning the calculation of the value of the tithe.

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John Johnes, assistant commissioner, to the Tithe Commissioners for England and Wales, 20 Feb. 1844

Gentlemen,

I held a preliminary meeting on the 21st of June last for the purpose of commuting the tithes of the above named parish, this meeting being adjourned 1st to the 26th of Sept'r, then to the 21st of Dec'br, then by notice from the Board to the 7th of Feb'ry, and lastly to the 8th of the same month.

It was proved that due notice of the meeting had been given.

Sir John Palmer Bruce Chichester is improprietor of all the tithes of the parish, and is also the owner of the farm of Vrongoch containing about 38 acres, the tithes of which it is intended to merge.

The validity of a modus of 2½d per acre, in lieu of the tithes of milk and calves, was admitted.

The annual receipt in lieu of the tithes during the year of average, exclusive of the tithes of the lands called Vrongoch, and the tithe of wood, but including the tithes of some lands out of the parish, was admitted to have been as follows:

1829 205-7-6
1830 205-0-6
1831 198-1-6
1832 192-19-6
1833 192-9-6
1834 186-18-0
1835 184-3-0
---------------
(7) 1364-19-6
---------------
194-19-11
Deduct for tithes out of the parish 2-5-0
---------------
192-14-11

The rates and taxes were paid by the titheowner.

On the annual value of the tithe of wood, the parties could not agree, and Mr Fosbrooke, a land surveyor residing at Hereford, was instructed to make a valuation of the wood tithe, his valuation is sent herewith the amount is £4-3-4.

It seems to me to be unnecessary to burden this report with other matters which occurred at the meetings, as at the last meeting the parties arranged that the rent charge in lieu of tithes should be £220-0-0. This sum I consider to be a sufficient rent charge and I propose to award it.

There is no glebe land in the parish.

I am gentlemen, your obedient humble servant,

John Johnes, Ass't Comm'r




John Johnes, assistant commissioner, to [un-named and undated, but stamped ‘Received Tithe Com., 23 Feb. 1844’]

Gentlemen,

The following estimate is made on the returns of quantities and stock put in by Mr Fosbrooke from admeasurement, the cost of grain I have a little altered in favor of the titheowner, the deduction of 25 per cent. is sufficiently small in that parish, my opinion is that it could not be collected for that per centage.

Wheat

60a.

17 B

6/2

314-10-0

Barley

113

18

3/4

339-0-0

Oats

256

20

2/-

512-0-0

Peas

7

10

5/-

17-10-0

       

---------------

       

(10) 1183-0-0

       

118-6-0

Deduct 25 per cent.

 

29-11-6

       

---------------

       

88-14-6

22 tons of hay at

 

35/-

 

38-10-0

9 tons of clover

 

30/-

 

13-10-0

92a. of potatoes

 

5/6

 

25-6-0

167 cows & calves (modus)

 

2½d.

 

1-14-9½

103 yearlings

 

1/-

 

5-3-0

86 2 years old

 

1/6

 

6-9-0

150 lbs of wool

 

1/-

 

7-10-0

49 lambs

 

5/-

 

12-5-0

12 sows

 

5/-

 

3-0-0

2 colts (pony)

 

30/-

 

3-0-0

12a. of turnips

 

3/-

 

1-16-0

Tithe of wood according to Mr Fosbrooke's valuation

 

4-3-4

   
       

---------------

       

£211-1-7½

I am dear Sir, yours truly

John Johnes




John Johnes, assistant commissioner, to the Tithe Commissioners for England and Wales, 17 April 1844

Gentlemen,

I held a meeting on the 15th inst for the purpose of hearing appeals against the rent charge in lieu of the above named parish.

It was proved that due notice of the meeting had been given, and that the award had been deposited in the parish on the 21st of March last.

It appeared that, although at the first meeting held for commuting the tithes of the above named parish it was agreed that the tithes of Vrongoch farm which belongs to the titheowner should be merged, yet at the meeting held on the 8th of Feb'ry last the parties arranged that the rent charge of £220-0-0 should be in lieu of the tithes of the whole parish and it was sought to deduct the annual value of the farm of Vrongoch from the £220-0-0 at the appeal meeting.

Mr Roberts, on the part of the titheowner, admitted that the £220-0-0 was meant as a rent charge in lieu of the tithes of the whole parish, and after some discussion it was arranged that £3-16-0 should be deducted from the £220-0-0 leaving the rent charge to be £216-4-0.

No other objection was offered to the amount of the proposed rent charge.

I am gentlemen, your obedient humble servant

John Johnes, Ass't Comm'r




Draft award of John Johnes, 29 April 1844.

The clause relating to Frongoch is deleted, and the rent charge for the whole parish is corrected from £216-4-0 to £220-0-0, and the correction dated 30 May 1844.

The parish is described as comprising 5008 5064a., that is to say, 839 857a. as arable, 2924 2932a. as meadow or pasture, 509 539a. as woodland, 647a. as turbary, 40a. as roads, 39a. as homesteads, and 10a. covered by water.

Sir John Palmer Bruce Chichester of Arlington, Devon, bart, is described as the impropriator.




Letter from James Hughes & Roberts of Aberystwyth, to T. C. [Newman?], esq., 21 May 1844,

protesting that the rent charge of £3-16-0 on Frongoch that had been agreed between Sir Bruce Chichester and the landowners before Mr Johnes, has now been struck out of the award.

 

 

Letter from James Hughes & Roberts of Aberystwyth, to T. C. [Newman?], esq., 12 Sept. 1844

Sir,

We beg to inform you that Mr Fosbrook of Hereford has been duly appointed to apportion the rent charge in this parish, and we shall feel obliged by the necessary directions being given to him to place a rent charge of £3-16-0 upon Sir Bruce Chichester's farm of Frongoch.

We have the honor to be ...




John Johnes, assistant commissioner, to the Tithe Commissioners for England and Wales, 7 April 1845

Gentlemen,

I held a meeting on the 3rd inst for the purpose of hearing appeals against the apportionment of the rent charge in lieu of the tithe of the above named parish.

It was proved that due notice of the meeting had been given, and that the copy of the draft apportionment, the map, and the surveyor's and valuer's bills had been deposited in the parish on the 10th of March last.

The expences incident to the award, including the separate valuation of the tithes of wood are

11-5-0

Do the apportionment 229-18-4

---------------

241-3-4

Mr Thomas Jones objected that his lands no. 324 to 335 are proportionally higher charged than the lands of Mr David Roberts no. 537 to 540. He had also objected to the rent charge on other lands but as regarded [sic] them he withdrew his objection.

No principal of apportionment has been laid down for the direction of the apportioner.

Mr Jones called as witness first, Richard Griffiths who said that he was a farmer living within a mile of the respondents farm, and that he knew the appellants farm, but that he did not know the value of it, that it was strange to him to say what he would give for it, at last he said that he would not give more than 20s. per acre for it, and that he would give for the respondents farm 10s. per acre more, because it is convenient, and easier to cultivate, and to carry manure to it, and easier to manage in wet weather, that the respondent did not sow wheat on his lands except now and then, but latterly he had sown two acres, that his crops of hay were good, when he had a good crop it would average about a ton per acre.

That he could not say what quantity of stock respondents land would keep, but that on all his lands (he occupies other lands) he [ ? ] 8 or 9 head of cattle each year, that about ten years ago respondent began to improve the lands in question, previous to which time three or four acres of his land was not worth more than 2s. 6d. per acre.

That he could not say what quantity of stock Respondents land would keep, but that had sometime seen the Appellants crop of hay which was rather light, but he had seen good crops of corn there, but had never noticed them in wet weather, that Appellant had also improved his land some time ago ten years ago considerably, that he was not in the habit of seeing Appellants land often, that he had made no valuation of it, but went over on the 2nd of April to see how it looked.

William Griffith, who has lived with the Appellant as a servant for twenty four or twenty five years said that he knows Appellants farm, and Respondents by seeing it from the road, but that he had not been over it, that he could not say whether Respondent's or Appellant's land is the best, some of the Respondent's is better than Appellant's, he then spoke to the improvements made by Appellant within the last nineteen years, and to the produce of the crops last year, and to the number of cattle kept there usually during the year, but I could obtain no account of the average breadth of tillage on the several lands, or of the average produce per acre, so as to form any satisfactory judgement on the proportional equity of the rent charges. I therefore declined to make any alteration.

No other objection was offered to the apportionment.

I am gentlemen, your obedient humble serv't

John Johnes, Ass't Comm'r




PRO IR 18/14018. Tithe file. Llangynfelyn. [stamped, ‘Weeded out, 12.7.12’]

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